In the last weeks very contagious mutations of Covid-19 pop up on several places in the world. The term “mutations” was already discussed last year, by biophysicist Oleg Grigoriev, who heads the official scientific association – the Russian National Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection.
In Разбор полёта: Тема токсичная для учёных и скользкая для СМИ [Debriefing 5G: The topic is toxic for scientists and slippery for the media], chapter 7, professor Grigoriev says that he believes that COVID could have appeared due to mutations from 5G waves, and that this hypothesis needs to be tested.
The interview in general: from also earlier Russian articles[see Archives Russia] I learned that there are several essential differences between Russia and the rest of the world concerning the radiation of electromagnetic fields. The safety guidelines created by The Russian National Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection are indeed safety guidelines and contradict the false so-called “safety” guidelines that are implemented in the rest of the world: via ICNIRP[see ICNIRP, a collection of articles and PDFs, documentaries], and via ICNIRP the World Health Organization, and the United Nations.
The interview took place in May 2020, and the in 10 chapters divided article was published in July 2020. The following text is an edited Google translation.
01. The topic is toxic for scientists and slippery for the media
Interviewer: In the city of Wuhan, the world’s coronavirus capital, the 5G network was launched a few weeks before the emergence of COVID-19. This fuelled rumours about the dangers of fifth generation communications and guerrilla warfare against these towers in various countries. Opponents of 5G fear that the new waves will suppress the immune system. Among the fighters there are also public people like the actor Woody Harrelson. “Sane” sceptics, putting their hands on their faces, accuse critics of being retrograde and ignorant. The big media in such situations often play the role of reserved sceptics. At the same time, some countries are officially freezing 5G deployments – Switzerland, for example.
An example of an analysis of the situation in the Russian popular-science media: 5G is safe, “because the radio waves of the frequencies used in 5G are non-ionizing, they do not damage DNA.” Moreover, earlier on the same N+1 portal, a text purchased by the Chinese company ZTE (“partner”) was published about how convenient and fast it will be with 5G.
By actively criticizing 5G and joining such activists, scientists run the risk of being labelled as opponents of progress (read – economic development) from their colleagues, so either they do not tackle the topic or are extremely careful in their assessments. Biophysicist Oleg Grigoriev, who heads the official scientific association – the Russian National Committee for Protection against Non-Ionizing Radiation, believes that COVID could have appeared due to mutations from 5G waves, and that this hypothesis needs to be tested. Our interlocutor prefaced Octagon’s questions with an introductory part – an explanation of what role activists against 5G can play, and why, in fact, his words can be trusted:
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: When you ask me questions, you must understand that I have been dealing with the bio-effects of non-ionizing radiation for more than 25 years. In particular, I was among the organizers of the first in our country study of the bio-effects of the electromagnetic field of cellular communication in the mid-1990s, including being in the group of the first irradiated volunteers, was the co-director of the first hygienic study of the base station, etc. And later I directed and carried out dozens of studies on non-ionizing radiation both for the state order and for the free market, including international ones, was the chief expert of the state commission for standardization for more than 10 years, a member of the medical commission of the military-industrial complex and much more. Separately – work in WHO (since 2005 I have been and since 1997 I have been collaborating) and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).
02. The science of dark matter, and the paranoia the industry uses as a bogeyman
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: First, a couple of introductories. First of all, electromagnetic biology, or radiobiology and hygiene of non-ionizing radiation, is a science, the same as physics or astronomy, even more precise, the science of dark matter. In the greeting letter of the President of the Russian Academy of Sciences to our conference, the approximate age of this branch of science in the country is indicated – 120 years (see the website of our conference bioemf.ru). Therefore, any messages like “maybe”, “but there is one meta-review in Sweden”, “but one aunt wrote on Facebook” will not be considered seriously.
♦ We – Russia – have preserved and support the scientific school, which is based on even earlier studies of the role of biological electricity, the role of electricity in general in nature.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Many greats have been noted in this subject – Sechenov, Pavlov, the Danilevsky brothers, Chizhevsky, Vernadsky, Bekhterev, Lazarev and so on. The well-known professor Popov owes the invention of the radio to his wife-relative, Dr. Izhevsky, who told him about the experiments at the Imperial Military Medical Academy on the perception of electromagnetism by living beings and attracted him to the construction of an experimental setup for biological experiments, which was the impetus to work on a radio receiver.
Such an old scientific school exists only in France and almost as old in the USA. Throughout the 20th century, only two countries in the world – the USSR / Russia and the USA – have conducted long-term full-scale studies of the bio-effects of EMF [electromagnetic fields]. This means: first – all ranges from 0 to 100 GHz and all modes, second – all intensities from sub-threshold to lethal, third – in all species – from rats to humans. Including, of course, all body systems, including the immune system.
The difference between the USSR / Russia and the United States is that “there” the role of the military in organizing and funding research is extremely great, but they were unable to organize long-term clinical and physiological observations, which is understandable: capitalism, freedom and other difficulties for a systematic health examination at state expense. In the USSR, experimental and hygienic work was supplemented by clinical and physiological work: that is, health was observed in connection with exposure to EMF in all contingents, from children 5 years old to the final, in domestic and industrial conditions.
French materials are less accessible to us until recently, one thing is clear – the French are working on the effects of small levels, the information field, and so on. Therefore, the strictest approaches to EMI limitation and control are not surprising.
♦ The last in the list of “electromagnetic” countries is China.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Since the beginning of this century, they have been running a state program, of course, under the military. Something else was heard about the initial stage, but then mostly empty articles. China was the first to officially supplement the defense environment with “electromagnetic” – along with “air, land, water”. Until 2014, they had completely Soviet sanitary standards, and since 2015, they have become ecological and are a hybrid.
The rest of the world uses scraps and meta-analyzes. Since it is difficult and expensive to conduct full-scale experiments. No one but these four countries works on animals. So that you understand: to extrapolate data to humans, you need to obtain a dose curve for several species of animals, and we are not talking about the animal as such, but about “models”, that is, the effect on the skin is one animal, on the eye – another. Just like on the central nervous system or behavior.
Now, thanks to the Internet, there are a lot of “specialists” in all branches of knowledge and types of activity. The peculiarity of the “electromagnetic” theme is that since the middle of the last century it has been viewed as a promising defense and as a hygienic one at the same time. And with the beginning of the massive introduction of wireless communications, more precisely from the moment large investments came there, the topic of EMF bio-effects was commercialized, since for investors it is a risk factor. Therefore, there are a lot of “commissions”, “experts”, “international committees” in which people sit who have not irradiated any animal in their lives, who have not seen in nature a single bloody bunny or rat with fruits that have been absorbed from an autoimmune reaction. Separately, a giant group of expert activists who have flooded social media. They are amusing guys, they dig out a lot of things that they don’t understand, but they are socially active and somehow convinced. Their presence is extremely harmful to the scientific problem, since idiotic ideas are then used by PR groups of vendor-manufacturers, and after that it is difficult to discuss the really existing problems.
In the IARC in 2018-2019, a group for long-term planning until 2024 worked, which ranked the most dangerous factors for human health (globally), since cancer is officially the main socially dangerous disease (not COVID). In this group, I was responsible for the electromagnetic field and a number of other factors. The decision on the relevance of the electromagnetic field went through a fierce face-to-face discussion at the IARC headquarters, in which the best experts from different countries took part.
A decision has been made to designate the radio frequency electromagnetic field as the highest priority and work on the review is to begin in 2022. This is very important for understanding the meaning of the topic “electromagnetism and health”, since the electromagnetic field cannot be considered outside the general context of health risk factors.
♦ It should be understood that due to the global coverage of cellular communications, even fractions of a percent of the risk realization grow into very large absolute figures, since this is now the most common factor with which the population in the world contacts.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: In addition, pay attention to the difference in approaches to rationing in different countries: we have medical standards, in China – environmental, in Italy – social, in the US the technical commission for communications is the regulator, and it is she who determines the limits. This is a general approach to preventive health policy, the results of which can be seen very clearly in the new virus.
03. Pointless bid
– Thanks for the educational information! On a fresh note: Moscow authorities commissioned a study on the health effects of 2G-5G in winter. Did they get something as a result? This bid for 30 million roubles[one euro is 90 roubles]. The Institute of Occupational Medicine (irioh.ru) operates.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: At the conference, which I have already mentioned, colleagues spoke negatively about the content of the TOR from the Department of Information Technologies (DIT) of Moscow. Basically it is a mixture of naive notions and misconceptions from the internet, slogans and a GSMA[an industry organisation that represents the interests of mobile network operators worldwide] brochure on 5G.
♦ The amount declared for implementation clearly does not correspond to the funding, as well as the time allotted for the scope of work in the TK.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: The promised data for ДИТ[Department of Information Technologies of Moscow] may be new, but basically all of them have already been published and received earlier in various research centers. Communal hygiene is not the profile of this Izmerov Research Institute of Occupational Health, as well as research on EMF of cellular communications. After the collapse of the USSR, where the Kiev Institute named after V.I. Marzeeva, colleagues from the tried to pull the blanket over themselves, especially since they have had an EMF laboratory since the 1950s. But production and utilities are regulated differently. If we take the work of Izmerov Research Institute of Occupational Health] for the 1960s – 1980s and apply it to modern cellular communications, then cellular communications should be urgently banned altogether. The first and only work on cellular communication at this institute was in 1999-2001, the results were reported three times at the meetings of the РНКЗНИ and were wrapped twice. As a result, the Soviet standards were adapted for cellular communications in Russia – this is described in detail in our monograph “Cellular Communications and Health” (2016), Chapter 4. And we agreed with WHO that they would not criticize.
But now the Izmerov Research Institute of Occupational Health in Moscow is inevitable, since there is no other institute in Moscow that could at least approximately deliver this kind of scientific research. Outside Moscow, they are, and they are much more prepared and ready. It cannot be ruled out that colleagues at the Scientific Research Institute of Methods will learn something at this research work and this will give an impetus to the further development of scientific potential. I have a very good attitude to the director of the Izmerov Research Institute of Occupational Health Bukhtiyarov, to colleagues from the group of electromagnetic fields under the leadership of Professor Paltsev. As far as I know, the work is carried out not by Paltsev’s employees, but by young talents of a new formation, for whom this is the first experience of relatively large-scale work.
♦ The North-West Hygienic Center of Rospotrebnadzor, which, according to my information, gave a negative opinion on the ТЗ on this topic, is engaged in the regulation of EMF in Rospotrebnadzor as the head institution.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Without them, without the work of the state commission and the opinion of the main experts, it is impossible to change the MPL [maximum permissible levels] – unless the procedure itself is changed. This research and development work is a topic for serious analysis, as ideas on worsening conditions for the population of the country are progressing smoothly, obviously increasing the risks of developing diseases.
04. How Poland and Ukraine lowered norms under the flag of decommunization
♦ Lobbyists are close to weakening the radiation standard of cellular equipment 10 μW / sq. cm?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Can not say. I do not know. They went very high in the government. This was in the old government and in the old situation. The virus will end – we’ll see.
♦ We must clearly understand: these are not just lobbyists, these are foreign lobbyists – the GSMA, who were so kind that they first published their claims in English and then in Russian.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: They did the same for many countries that are not under their commercial influence. Last year, approximately the same scenario was implemented in Poland – but it was interesting there, the abolition of the limits was under the slogan of abandoning the Soviet legacy.
What is 10 μW? In 1966, for 10 μW at work they gave vacation, milk, and so on – this, by the way, was substantiated by professor Gordon from the Izmerov Research Institute of Occupational Health. But the main school of civil EMF hygiene for the population was in Kiev, at the Institute of Communal Hygiene, where it remained. The Kievites developed a mathematically grounded theory, according to which it turned out somewhere around 3 μW, but the Union norms were adopted for 10 μW for a number of reasons that I know, but this is not for the media. After the collapse of the USSR in Ukraine, they set between 2-3 μW, only in 2017 they installed 10 – by a government decision against the opinion of the Academy of Sciences and hygienists. Uzbekistan last year repeated the Soviet series of studies and also installed less than 3 μW. In Paris – 10, in Italy, in Switzerland. This figure does not give a complete picture of exposure conditions and safety. We are talking about fundamentally different approaches that take into account the frequency composition and type of modulation. And about social norms.
– Will the introduction of 5G in Russia violate our ЭМП standards when implemented at frequencies, for example, 3.4-3.8 GHz?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: The signal of the projected 5G cannot be correlated with Russian remote controls, and the existing measurement methods are inapplicable.
On the other hand, our standards have never been an issue for vendors. When there was a scandal with Motorola (in the mid-2000s), there was a meeting of interested parties, at which the head of the Motorola representative office said bluntly: if there is strong control, they will comply with the norms. But one must understand that the rules and norms are written by one, and control – completely different. Even in France there was a scandal last year with measurement methods, by the way, and in the USA too – with the iPhone 11.
– Can I see the latest official research on 5G?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: How can you get acquainted with the results if you do not have special training? What are official? Are there underground ones? It should be noted that 5G does not exist as a standard, since the ITU [telecom union at the UN] has not approved it, and it is not known when it will be. In different countries there are experimental sets on which the experimental equipment of different vendors is being tested. As far as I know, they are not in Russia. Signallers portray something, but they are rather experimental, not even experienced.
Only in early May we received the first relatively detailed report on the characteristics of the exposition from the equipment of the main vendors at several test sites. This is the first such report in the world to be issued by the French radio frequency control agency. Now we are analyzing these data, we will discuss them with colleagues and then we will definitely give forecasts and considerations. I must emphasize once again: these are experienced sets. All that is said about the so-called commercial 5G network is marketing stuff.
About forecasting. I spoke about this above: there are patterns in the response of organisms that make it possible to predict diseases with a certain probability. Let me explain. There is a large body of data on bio effects, on the basis of which the reaction, and then the likelihood of disease, is predicted. In the US, this is culturally framed as an EMF bio-effects database, but it is not available to ordinary researchers, much less the Facebook public. There are more source materials in Russia, and we are working on the base. We have a lot of data, too much, including clinical data.
♦ I would like to emphasize: the effect is not equal to the disease! Cancer in a rat is not equal to cancer in humans. The immune response in the rat is very different from the immune response in humans.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: We have just submitted an article to the Rospotrebnadzor journal for the authorship of three doctors of sciences constantly working in the electromagnetic field from different organizations, where we once again analyze the basic data and confirm the above point of view: we can predict almost everything, confirm it in biomedical tests, and the current norms guarantee the health of the population.
05. Probability of oncology with 5G will grow
– Why am I asking for specific research: as I understand it, modern wireless communication standards heat up biological tissues to one degree or another. Often in the media, a recent Swedish meta-study of 94 scientific papers with the thesis about heating the skin by 1-3 degrees is cited. In the same place, however, it is indicated that in real conditions such heating is levelled by heat regulation – human blood circulation.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: “Meta-analyses” is how I would start writing about ballet on the basis of newspapers and the Internet. None of this is true. There is a telephone and there is a BS [base station]. These are two different types of irradiation, as there are two different types of field. The peculiarity of the discussed 5G standard in the way of organizing the signal: the first is a high-amplitude high-gradient pulse, the second is the direction of the main beam to the device (now the main beam is in space), the third is the use of a wide spectrum of frequencies in a burst of pulses – maybe the signalman will say more precisely, but for us it is so. This is potentially a very dangerous – not harmful, but dangerous – way of organizing a signal. No heat. This was experimentally verified back in the 1980s and 1990s, since this type of antenna and signal was used to search for effective methods of radar, and at the same time, bio-effects were studied.
This is partially published in our articles, in the work of Professor Svetlana Lukyanova ( / “The electromagnetic field of the microwave range of non-thermal intensity as an irritant for the central nervous system“, 2015) and others. On this issue – the full agreement of experts. And the bikes come from a series of articles by [Swedish telecom] Ericsson from 2015 onwards.
The discussion “warm – not warm” in scientific terms began in 1897 between d’Arsonval (France) and Professor Danilevsky (Russia). By the middle of the 20th century, it became clear that the biological effects of EMF did not have a threshold, by the end of the 20th century, a more or less general idea of the dose-effect curve was formed by Russian and American scientists, we analyzed this repeatedly together in the period from 1996 to 2008 … Including in the bands on which they plan to 5G.
That is, at low values of the electromagnetic field, the role of the method of organizing the irradiation is more significant than the energy, and the more energy, the more important is the thermal balance. And there is also a difference in thermal balance: local or general, general due to the total amount of energy or due to a violation of the center of thermoregulation, and so on.
Where does the “warmth” come from in the USA? In 1945, the Americans caught two Nazi scientists in Munich – Raevsky and Schwan, the latter was conducting electromagnetic topics for the Nazi Navy. Schwan was taken to the United States and given a job in the laboratory of the American Navy. By this time, there was a discussion in the United States about what should be considered safe EM radiation, since they also had data on the reactions of the nervous system and on the thermal effect. So Schwan was responsible for substantiating the norms for the US Navy (controlled exposure conditions), which he did based on the data that he received in Nazi laboratories and supplemented in the USA.
♦ Therefore, the first rates in the US were thermal and with a German accent. Well, then the norms flowed into industry and were fixed there – in the USA there is no СанПиН[SanPiN, Sanitary (sanitary and epidemiological) rules (SP), norms (SN), rules and norms (SanPiN), hygienic standards (GN) are state by-laws normative legal acts with descriptions and requirements of factors that are safe and harmless to humans, human populations and descendants environment and their optimal and safe quantitative parameters in order to preserve health and normal life, Admin] and there are no norms for the population in our understanding.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: From what has already been said, it should be clear that the topic is very difficult to comprehend without special training. It is not the effects that are fundamental to the acceptance of the threshold, but the readiness of the medical system and the country’s economy to the risk associated with exposure. As long as these were narrow groups (military and working under controlled conditions), it was easy to assess the risk. But the development of cellular communications was outstripping, no one spoke about the risks for the mass user – therefore, hardware manufacturers in the 1980s focused on the existing standards for production. Later, in the 1990s, when the audience of users began to expand, it was no longer possible to deviate from the principle, otherwise even then the United States would have to pay by courts. Oncology is a medical criterion of harm accepted in many countries; the discussion about the cancer effect began in the 1990s.
– I did not understand about the basis for accepting the threshold: is the readiness of the system or human health more important? For an ordinary person, specific bio-effects, even in rats, are quite associated with his health.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: This is not a question for me. Our task is to research and systematize data, make a forecast and check it when setting a task from the state. We have to give a dose-response curve, and for health planners, draw a cut-off line for acceptable outcomes (taking into account the factor of hygiene, and so on).
♦ Criteria are a question for politicians, an example from the current one: tens of thousands of people die from AIDS and tuberculosis every year, but with less mortality, state attention is paid to COVID.
– Are there generally more or less generally accepted theses about the impact of 5G on human health?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Those who worked in the experiment with animals, with humans, have one point of view. Those who are “meta-analysis” are different. The biological effect is clear. But biological effect and health are not the same thing. The same irradiation regime for different people has a different effect under the conditions typical of 5G. It’s like smoking. Yes, the effect is primarily on the nervous system. But due to the specificity of the antennas of the subscriber terminal, the likelihood of oncology will increase.
06. Пытка водой / Water Torture
– Will it increase? We briefly talked with your teacher Yuri Grigorievich Grigoriev (not a relative – τ.), And he told us that 5G is a thousand times less dangerous than 2G, 3G, 4G, since it does not penetrate deep into the brain and tissues. Do you disagree with this?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Professor Yuri Grigoriev is 95 years old, and he is the oldest radiobiologist in the world, I cannot discuss his opinion (Oleg, the interlocutor of Octagon, 53 years old, here is his biography -Russian [/ -English, Admin] on the industry telecom portal. – τ.). It is clear that Yuri Grigorievich has long since retired from practical work due to his advanced age.
Note that the lower European 5G band is the same as 4G (3.4 GHz vs 2.8 GHz). This is a wave of about 8 centimeters. There is no difference. Penetration is traditionally a weakening by a factor of e (e is the base of the natural logarithm, Euler’s number, approximately equal to 2.71828 – τ.). But both 2e and 3e can be significant. Depends on the method of irradiation organization.
I can say that I agree with another teacher of mine, Professor Svetlana Lukyanova.
♦ The electromagnetic field of radio frequencies of non-thermal intensity is a stimulus to the nervous system, which can be strong or weak depending on the conditions of irradiation or the state of the irradiated person.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: In fact, the classics of Russian science, from Academician Pavlov to Academician Shandaly, speak about this in one way or another. As well as DARPA contractors [US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency] Professor Ben Greenebaum and his colleagues in an article published last month. DARPA conducts research into low-intensity EMFs and the role of cell-to-cell electromagnetic interactions.
Reception for the far zone is primarily skin receptors, endings of the nervous system. Their reaction is quite clearly reflected in the brain. For simplicity, we recommend recalling the medieval drop torture (an immobilized person is slowly dripping water on his head for days on end – τ.).
The reception for the near zone differs in that it is an inductive zone in which there is no energy transfer and a strong magnetic component, that is, receptors, micro circulation, membrane effects, etc. are involved. The near zone is a telephone. Distant – base station antenna. In 5G phone samples, four phased arrays have been added to the previous 2G – 4G antennas, so the general characteristics of the field absorbed by the head tissues are very complex.
– That is, 5G is: 1. “water torture” and 2. an increase in the risk of oncology. Is that why all the fuss?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: These are two extreme polar points – the reaction of the nervous system, which is non-threshold, and the consequences of chronic exposure, which are significant for public health, according to the global view.
♦ “Torture by dripping water” is a figurative expression. Each EMF impulse is reflected in the reaction of the nervous system – the more there are, the earlier the transition from adaptation to compensation, and this is already a disease.
– By the way, you said that the 5G wave is 8 centimeters long. But these waves are indicated everywhere as millimeter waves, or am I still missing something? How deep can 5G millimeter waves penetrate the body?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: There are several sub-bands reserved for 5G. 3 GHz is roughly a 10-centimeter wave, formally it is not millimeters. In general, the concept of “how deep” depends on the criterion, as I have already told you: in radio engineering, this is an attenuation of e or 2e times. But, given the thresholdlessness, this question is meaningless for a complex signal. Intercellular electromagnetic communication is nano watts.
07. “Catalyst of origin of COVID due to accelerated mutation”
Based on your Twitter posts, do you deny that 5G and COVID immunity problems can be somehow connected? Do you support any of the theories held by the 5G tower thugs? Simply justification there, in the opinion of many, looks like nonsense, like the recent theory of director Mikhalkov about Bill Gates’ liquid chips.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: The immune system is included in the set of critical body systems for EMF, along with the nervous system and others. This has been included in the methods for organizing research on the bio-effects of EMF since about 1974, confirmed by the WHO. In the USSR, a series of immune studies was carried out from about 1977 to 1990, and these data were used in every possible way in rationing. They were in the formulas of the aforementioned Kiev institute.
♦ Since the reaction of the immune system is a quantitative thing, in 2004 the commission of the WHO electromagnetic program decided to repeat the Soviet experiments, which we did with its participation in 2006-2008.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: The scientific co-director of the program was Professor Yuri Grigoriev, I was the coordinator of scientific and practical work of the Russian part. On behalf of WHO, Mike Repacholi[founder ICNIRP, former ICNIRP chair, and now chair of honour, Admin] was led, funded in part by industry through WHO.
As a result, we got exactly the same result as in the USSR: the immune system responds to a non-thermal level of EMF. Initially, this should be considered as a systemic reaction of adaptation to an unfavorable factor. But the central nervous system must react before it. There are standard schemes for studying the influence of new factors and health risks, so if there was a planning task to study the effect of EMF of cellular communication on health in the population, then the immune system would be there. If you are not lazy and go to the РГБ[Russian State Library, Admin, you will find a lot of works on the immune system and EMF, especially on millimeter waves.
However, there is another side to the issue: BS in China can stimulate an accelerated genetic mutation process, since all data on exposure at a distance of 5 meters from BS antennas are exactly the same as those used in the USSR, when a persistent mutational effect was obtained on a number of microorganisms. The first time I pulled these data out at the plenary session of the РАН[Russian Academy of Sciences, Admin] conference in 2008, no one refuted them.
Therefore, if we talk about COVID, then one of the main theories I would consider BS EMF as a catalyst of origin due to accelerated mutation, and this must be investigated, since there are prerequisites. The fact that the Chinese make all their BSs at their own limit is a fact, they also offer 5G at national limits.
Жидкие чипы [Liquid chips, see probably here, Admin] – I don’t know. There are a lot of works on the introduction of something into the body, including experimental ones. For “ordinary” biochips, the wireless communication of new generations is very much sharpened, work in this direction is going on, it’s not a secret. This is not an easy task, we made a prototype of a cyberdog[sample, Admin] for the detection of target substances, spent 5 years to enter experimental operation, and ran into just the unsolved problem of the implanted biochip. And the customer, in my opinion, was a little nervous.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Not much has been published about cyberdogs [samples, Admin], this is a special topic. You get nervous when you can see on the computer that the decision by the brain of the “dog” has already been made, but not yet executed, especially when this decision is executed in a short moment.
♦ Launching new technologies is a very responsible decision, and not every development needs to be released.
– Can a person be microchipped for the Internet of Things, 5G?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Can. And that’s the official goal of 5G.
Why is obvious: on the one hand, to improve the quality of life through new services, on the other, to develop new sectors of the neo-Keynesian economics. For example, a post-stroke patient in Uryupinsk is monitored around the clock for 10 indicators, and the data on outsourcing is processed by an Indian in Birmingham. Supplement the system with feedback, and, quite possibly, the patient’s life will be extended by a year or two, and the compulsory medical insurance system will drive money. These are not fiction, but prototypes.
08. About the credit of the telecom pyramid
– You probably support any conspiracy theories related to all this? You said in an interview recently that communications managers need a constant increase in the number of towers, but I did not fully understand. Do you mean that all this is done for the sake of rapid growth in revenue and kickbacks to officials? Or are there other motives?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Conspiracy theories are not for me. More towers means more fixed assets, that is, lending at a low interest rate. Communication – already 10 years as a financial pyramid through lending, they have not covered the costs with a monthly fee for a long time, but “digital” is the generation of a steady flow of money, therefore it works well in the neo-Keynesian theory of economics. This is a common view, we even talked about it at WHO. Unofficial, but credible: network utilization is now 40 percent.
♦ Therefore, they promote 5G, creating a beautiful fairy tale. And into space – also from the same story, see the collapse of OneWeb.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: We have a colleague, Dr. V. I. Mordachev, a communications operator, very respected in the world, in November at the 2019 conference he showed us in numbers the redundancy of the BS to ensure communication.
We are talking about the multiple redundancy of both the stations and the electromagnetic background that they create.
– Do you assume that the low mortality rate in Russia from COVID may be due to the lack of 5G towers? By this logic, it turns out that the bureaucracy is still saving the Russians (the military does not provide frequencies for 5G).
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: I am not suggesting anything relatively low mortality. On the issue of COVID, I agree with the speeches of Academicians Chuchalin, Zverev and other members of the Preventive Medicine Section, and especially with Nikolai Filatov. By the way, when he was in Moscow, there was a regional remote control 2–3 µV, and there was a connection. (Deputy Director of the Mechnikov Research Institute, former chief medical officer of Moscow Nikolai Filatov stated that quarantine and border closures are useless against coronavirus and that the virus is nothing more than a common respiratory infection, and only natural immunization of the population will stop it, which takes time. – τ.)
– In February 2020, you told «Коммерсанту» that “engineers are now looking for a way to scatter 5G radiation,” since it is more dangerous than 2G – 4G due to high-intensity directional radiation exposure, and not because of the diffuse method of signal transmission. What kind of engineers are we talking about?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: It’s difficult for me to follow your quote, because we spoke with Kommersant on the phone, and that’s all. Obviously, it was about the developers of means for absorbing EMF RF (the electromagnetic field of the radio frequency range created by the elements of cellular communication. – τ.). There are several research centers that have developed household grade absorbers. There is a very good development in St. Petersburg, it is conversion, if it is brought to production, there will be a high-quality inexpensive absorber. It is important to have exactly an absorber so that the field does not re-reflect and does not create local areas of increased EMF.
– Do you mean wall coverings-absorbers? Are we talking about such panels built on the principle of acoustic absorbers with a cellular “needle” structure?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: You have a laboratory EMF absorber in the photo. There are a lot of products of absorbers with a complex structure, which outwardly look like a thick sheet of drywall approximately. An extremely necessary thing for the city. We made zones of electromagnetic deprivation in the bedroom, that is, placement taking into account the background from external sources (we made a map). Actually, I did this in all the apartments where I lived, and I published something, and this has been quoted by various authors for 20 years. At a distance of 650 meters from the balcony there is a base station, I monitor the background regularly, but never gained more than 1 μW.
09. Base station 100 meters from home? Worth worrying about
– Regularly reports: “Resident N burned down the cell tower.” If the base station is nearby, at what distance should I move / complain?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: 100 meters.
– There are household EMP background meters. What level of radiation in the apartment / house / on the site should be?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Household is only possible as a rough indicator. The normal level in an apartment for electric and magnetic fields is about 50–150 nT. For radio frequencies in Moscow, the median is now about 3 μW / sq. cm, but there are many sharp irregularities, since the placement of base stations is a complete mess.
– Who is usually to blame for the mess?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Who is guilty? Manufacturers and operators believe that the state is guilty. The population believes that they are messmen. If the roads are not very good, then it should be excellent in other matters? That is, these are local situations, but in general there is no problem for the population.
However, electromagnetism is a common factor from a hygiene point of view. For example, for residents of Komsomolsky Prospekt, noise and infrasound are much more significant than EMF, but this does not mean that there is total noise pollution in Moscow.
Our norms are almost excellent. In the part of the remote control, they can be made frequency-dependent, but not necessary. The flat scale is convenient for practice. There is a good proposal to normalize according to the total exposure, and this is the most correct thing. What is the current lack of rationing: our general teacher, academician Mikhail Shandala, in the last years before his death, repeatedly suggested to me that it is necessary to make comprehensive standards for a modern city, that is, if the effect of EMF, noise, dustiness develops, then the norms should be substantiated differently, and control in a different way. The great scientist, unfortunately, died a year ago.
– What phone do you have?
♦ – Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Since 1997 I have been taking and periodically updating simple button Nokia without a camera and other unnecessary things.
Interviewer: Which communication mode is better to set in the smartphone settings in terms of health – 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G? Do they also differ in signal density? The battery lasts longer in 2G mode.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Set any mode. The energy flux density depends on the quality of the connection, not on the standard. Standard – the type of modulation; the younger the standard, the more complex the modulation, and for non-thermal levels this is essential.
You automatically almost always talk about 2G regardless of your desire. Three hours of conversation per day – exceeding the permissible daily rate of the telephone’s EMR, these are “heavy subscribers”.
♦ An non-utilized telephone should be kept at least 30 cm from the head, thus breaking the electrodynamic connection.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: For pregnant women, it is better to keep the phone and tablet no closer than 30 centimeters to the fetus. When talking, it is generally better to use a headset, preferably a wired one[an EMF free one, Admin].
– And what about Bluetooth headphones (2.402-2.48 GHz)? Bluetooth protocols surely differ in signal density / amplitude? Now version 5.2.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: An hour a day – acceptable for an adult not burdened with oncology, neurodegenerative disorders, and others.
– Fitness trackers use the fourth to fifth version of Bluetooth. Have there been any authoritative radiobiological studies of Bluetooth bracelets anywhere?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Radiobiological definitely not.
– You probably don’t have Wi-Fi at home?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Assume that I am a doctor of radiobiology for non-ionizing radiation, and not an activist in the fight: Wi-Fi is. It makes no sense not to establish, they are from neighbours, the contribution of neighbours to the background is insignificant, but there is. Therefore, his own is in the farthest corner – above the front door – and фонить[like when your cell phone rings and it makes your speakers buzz.] is approximately the same as the neighbour’s for the main part of the apartment. When not in use, it turns off physically, including at night. I also issued such recommendations for the Research Institute of Children’s Hygiene, they are published: keep for protection the the device at a distance. Of course, I additionally monitored mine myself in different modes: in the mode of heavy video stream at 2.4 GHz, it “shines” a little less than the base station, but the signal quickly fades, so the rule of distance protection works reliably: three meters in a straight line must be provided. It is necessary to have five meters to sleep places, especially for children. And it is absolutely justifiable to [place] the absorber on the walls of the bedroom, as I told you.
Professor Nina Rubtsova, the author of the magnetic field remote control for workers, has had a dacha under power lines for many years – she believes that under controlled conditions. This is typical of professionals in any field.
[Additional: 1. Compare the picture with the world map in chapter 4, and compare the EMF levels in Russia with the rest of the world. 2. Trapped into an invisible death, interview with Professor Yuri B. Zubarev / the nine rules from Zubarev, Admin.]
10. Is there a future for foil hats
– What harm (women, men) can regularly sitting with a laptop on your lap do, if this laptop is connected to Wi-Fi?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: The reproductive system, first of all; see the conference collection bioemf.ru for the reports of Chueshova, according to the exposure parameters can be used for extrapolation.
For children before quarantine, we have released updated guidelines for distance learning together with the Research Institute of Children’s Hygiene. For example, it is recommended to study using laptops and computers connected to the Internet via cable.
♦ Children under 6 years old must completely exclude the use of any computer equipment for educational purposes at home.
– Seriously, in what hypothetical situation in the future would it really be better to wear foil hats or similar protective devices? What radiation can foil caps protect from?There have been studies that hats are able to protect just from high-frequency radiation.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Hats – not competent. The Chinese sell hats and clothing – from underpants to coats – with a shielding layer.
– Who makes sense to wear shielding clothes?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Professionals in the first place (the telecommunications industry is a sad story). Pregnant women should not be hurt either.
– You’ve heard for sure: creams have recently appeared against 5G (2G – 4G) radiation. Their sale pulls on st. 159 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (fraud) or are there really compositions that work as absorbers?
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: I have never heard of the cream before. I specially looked at the ads – judging by the abundance of advertising offers and their meaninglessness, these are the tricks of lobbyists, the topic is deliberately marginalized. [Additional: read 5G, Effects on Eyes and Skin, Admin]
– There are scientists in the US who got their name from the fight against wireless networks. Surely you were compared to Bill Carrey and David Carpenter, who are still criticized for the fact that the harm from wireless standards has not been proven.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: I do not fight with anyone, especially not with wireless networks. Scientists and experts should not be engaged in struggle. We must investigate how you, the users, adapt to the new factor, how your body will pay, etc.
As for harm, again: this is a complex topic. I think anyone at WHO or IARC will tell you that I am one of the most boring in terms of methodology. For example, there is no epidemiological dose data on cancer, so this requires research; there is no data to transfer to a person and so on. From a scientific point of view, this forces a cautious approach to the classification of radio frequencies as a carcinogen.
A year ago, in March, we sat in Lyon at the IARC head office and discussed – two cancers per 100 thousand people are not enough, and four is already a criterion. People from WHO generally propose to start analyzing all the data when they finish the children’s epidemiological report, that is, they calculate how many children in Europe will get cancer from cell phones, to put it simply. This is a normal conversation for a pre-decision science meeting.
However, this March, from England, the father of a nine-year-old girl who just died a year ago from a rapidly developing brain tumor wrote to me from England. An initially healthy child, the only thing that distinguished him from other children was a smartphone in his hands around the clock, addiction. The father is certain that the cause of death is the EM radiation from a mobile phone. As a scientist, I should reason: and the dose, and the time, other factors? But what if EMF is the reason? And if she is exactly the girl we thought was the missing unit a year ago in Lyon?
♦ It is impossible to prove or disprove the connection between death and mobile phone EMF.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: And now it seems to me that it is scientists, specialists, experts who bear even more responsibility for the death of this girl than the communications industry. I’m not even talking about the WHO staff, the very idea of counting children dying of cancer as a criterion is some kind of a concentration camp experiment.
– And you also see 5G as an experiment. To summarize, do you see a compromise option for introducing 5G in Russia? Can you find a balance between health and business, somehow supplement the standards?
♦ 5G has a problem with the way the signal is organized. I will never subscribe to 5G security as presented.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: For 10 years I was in charge of medical and biological testing of special equipment, it’s not a secret. My signature is on many documents authorizing the use of new technologies that may affect health. Therefore, I am deliberately saying: any mass adoption of 5G dramatically increases the risk for everyone in the range of a directional 5G EM signal. If anyone wants to take responsibility a priori, let him sign, the main thing is that history should preserve his name. And we will investigate the consequences.
Please note: it is not for nothing that DARPA contractors advocated a sharp tightening of safety standards for modern communication systems (article by Professor Greenebaum in the April issue of Bioelectromagnetics). DARPA conducts five projects on the bio-effects of complex signals, including intercellular EM connections, resonances. I know what they’re seeing: a complex signal interferes with the nervous system.
Since I am already explaining a lot to you, I will try again. Let’s do a thought experiment. Let’s say there is 100 percent energy (no matter what the value is) and 10 minutes of exposure. Frequency is also not fundamentally important, let it be a few GHz. If you put in all the energy evenly, you will get one effect, which is determined mainly by the total amount of energy. If you enter the same energy for the same total time fractionally, at regular intervals, you will get a different effect, as a rule, more pronounced than with the continuous introduction of the same amount of energy. If you introduce the same energy for the same total time in portions at arbitrary intervals, you will get a third effect, as a rule, even more pronounced, and the nervous system will be the leading one. This is especially noticeable in chronic irradiation, therefore laboratory data have long been supported by clinical and physiological, that is, by examining the health status of large groups of irradiated people. They did it back in the USSR.
The 5G signal is just the last example in our experiment, albeit in a very simplified way.
♦ Therefore, when such a complex signal, as in 5G, is brought to the main population, we must both expect delayed effects in chronic exposure and prepare for early effects, and acute effects cannot be ruled out.
– Professor Oleg Grigoriev: Collectively, this is an increase in risk for the entire population. The limit of acceptable risk and its price for society, as we know, is not determined by experts in the field of bio-effects, but by the state of the health care and social security system.
Based on the foregoing, the only way out is to develop new communication standards, guided primarily by the preventive principle in the field of health, since this affects the entire population. Not the other way around: some guy from Ericsson came up with an engineering solution that would suit him, and the consent of radiobiologists and hygienists must be tailored to this.
What would I suggest and suggest to vendors always. Let’s take a group of 5G developers, at least Ericsson, at least Skolkovo, and conduct a year-long experiment on volunteers using the equipment they have developed. This will remove all problems in general, will make a great contribution to science and will be honest with the population. One could make an online broadcast for the whole world, and science will pay off as well.